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Posted by NZL_PaulR  |
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An interesting idea Rod.
One consideration would be a "local noon" start for boats all flying the same flag, therefore that "Nation based" division would have the same start time. Then again a local "noon" or 1200hrs may not suit people who may prefer an evening after work time e.g. 1800 or 2000. Problem comes when people are racing under their national flag, but IRL are working, visiting, living etc in some oher country. This would then suggest divisions based upon what time Zone one is or wishes to be in. This would create say 27 divisions as we in NZ are currently GMT/UTC+13 so some where there may be some in Alaska who may be in GMT/UTC-13 and with GMT/UTC of "Zero" could create my 27 divisions. IRL most yacht races are utterly chaotic prior to the start gun and magically they all line up nicely. It is about the only sport I know that does not get all the starters in a neat straight line to start. Most races over my many years would have all starters away within a few minutes, with a common maximum of say 5 minutes. Further most start lines are relatively short, under 1nm in length and so SoL's start "circle" works, given that most races are over 100nm. If there was to be development time on prestart tactics and monoeverings, then perhaps introducing a 3 boat length "ZONE" around each boat to follow the IRL RRS giveway rules could be more useful of those resources. If you go into that "zone" the boat in error has NOT given way and some penalty (TWA=0 for x minutes) could be imposed. Of course a NO PROTEST clause may be needed. Perhaps then having divisions based on say groups of 10 boats in each start could provide some "match" racing scenarios. Each division could be at 5 minute starts, as IRL, and with normal late and non starters, many divisions might shrink to say 7 boats, giving closer match racing tactics an opportunity to shine. Having only 2 boats in a match race will be disappointing when your oponent does NOT START. Hence my suggesting 10 entries per division. Some thoughts to ponder and considering all new ideas "IS" worth while. If it breaks, it's not strong enough! |
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Posted by Rod  |
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I see no specific need for divisions here. All boats could still start at once--DCs can be calculated and set to insure a boat is not over early--the line could be extended to several miles in length to spread out the fleet--choice of starting point on the line would overcome some of the objections relating to 'following' a 'star' sailor ( not naming anyone called 76.....).
Provided the programming could be done without great expense, the idea seems to me to be only favourable to the 'realism' of the racing game. If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy. |
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Posted by NZL_Scotsman  |
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An alternative to varying the start time (which sounds like a Mark Foy race to me, fastest boat starts last and has to catch everyone) would be simply to handicap the race.
This could be done with the results so no extra server requirement. It could either be done per boat per race or via divisions (1-10 ranking handicap 1, 11-20 0.99 etc). This would allow low ranked boats a chance of "winning". This is all pretty similar to IRL so we should be familiar with it. Kevin |
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Posted by Rod |
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I am watching the TV replay of the start of this leg from Abu Dhabi....and note the use of a short in-port style of 'around the buoys' racing to begin the leg. Could this be incorporated into SOL? It would also have the feature of spreading the fleet, inhibiting the "following" problem, and put a greater premium on boat-handling---all of which would increase both the interest and the realism of the SOL racing model. If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy. |
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Posted by NZL_PaulR |
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Rod: On your first post in this thread you stated:
"I've an idea for how to run a match racing series that hopefully would not add much to admin or server requirements." Match racing is boat against boat, just as in AC finals etc. So 2 boats racing in SoL would be boring and so I wondered what would happen if your opposition failed to start. All over rover, nothing achieved, no result. I do accept your wishes to have a chance of winning, with tactics between boats being a more major factor than simple boat speed. Unfortunately SoL does not do this currently. Therefore if there were only a few boats racing then if one could cover, tack to force them further away from marks etc as IRL, then that would certainly be interesting to try. As a compromise, a small fleet of say 10 boats, would make a very competitive scenario. It could even become a ladder type event where the first, second and third boats move up into the next round until a final race of less than 10 starters; others being eliminated. In simple terms it could be as close to match racing as SoL can get to practically and without major programming development. Each division would be like a different class of boats, just like the Tall Ships recent races where one could choose a type of boat to race. The only alternative is to follow what we Kiwis (NZL_boats) have already been doing in the past years and have a national prize of a bottle of rum for first in the major races. Then one forgets about the rest of the world, and concentrates solely on beating the kiwi nearest to you. It becomes close match racing for real except the getting cold and wet stuff!!! If it breaks, it's not strong enough! |
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Posted by Rod |
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My 'shtick' isn't the match racing idea, but the 'start line' concept. I think that adding to the realism of SOL would add greatly to the interest for 'Off-season' racers (such as myself, in the Northern Hemisphere, where the water has become frozen). Starting is a large part of sail racing, and I don't think it would add greatly to the programming complexity, as the 'finishing and mark rounding' programming already includes most of the details. If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy. |
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Posted by NZL_PaulR |
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My apologies Rod.
Yes I can understand the pre-start tactical positioning could be interesting, if an advantage could be gained for the race. Certainly the keenest awake at starting time will enjoy but many others asleep or working will have set DCs. I also agree with you, that any inport around the buoys should be included in the SoL course, to achieve SoL's stated realism aim. --- Last Edited by NZL_PaulR at 2012-01-21 23:25:54 --- If it breaks, it's not strong enough! |
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Posted by AGage  |
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======================
Indeed it is in a 'Round the Buoys' race lasting 1.5 - 2.5 hrs, in a 5000nm race it would be insignificant. You mention spreading the fleet - just look at the 'fan' resulting from ALL race starts on SOL - it is quite spread already ?? I think it is important to keep in mind what Sailonline's main line is - Simulating Ocean races... These shorter ones have been added in later, and are great to race - indeed also add a certain element of boat handling on occasion (the right polar in the right conditions) and offer an experience requiring quite different skill-set to these long VOR legs. But there is already enough to contend with for non-sailors, and sailors alike, without adding ROW rules etc... SOL just inst intended to cater for 'Pre-start manoeuvring' etc - Download and/or purchase VSK if you want that sort of racing 
It also helps to keep threads on topic - you will get more repsonses, which may just result in some idea or the other making its way into SOL I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__ |
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Posted by 76Trombones  |
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Quick reminder that daily "practice racing" uses a start line. The marks are left in place and can be used by any groups wanting to match race at times other than those run by RC.
For SOL, the favoured end is almost always obvious - more so if we can't adjust marks within an update of the start. Luff at the starting end and it's just like now. Without full RRS and boat vs boat influence/dimensions it doesn't work, and the timescales don't make sense. Our boats move a hundred metres at a time. SOL is an ocean racing simulator. At practice race scale (two hours max) the line sometimes matters. Winning margins in SOL races can be hours. |
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Race #1939
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Patricks Test
Race #1932
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Joanne's Test Race Zone
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Marstrand to Cowes 2025
We invite you to another race, which will kick off the third quarter of our ARCH series. We'll set off from Marstrand, Sweden, which, along with Skagen, Denmark, marks the line commonly recognised as the border separating the Baltic Sea from the North Sea. The 650nm route will take our Ripitide 50 across the North Sea and the English Channel to Cowes, England. Watch out for the fast ferries crossing the Channel from Calais to Dover 😊.
Race #1935
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Nantucket Sprint 2025
Welcome to Nantucket, from whence Herman Melville’s Cap’n Ahab sailed round The Horn into the northern Pacific Ocean to hunt the gray whale - whose migrations are celebrated elsewhere in SOL’s Q4 schedule - he never to return. And whaling too, as the 19th C progressed, like Ahab disappeared from Nantucket as the harbour silted up and mainland Massachusetts whaling stations benefited from rail connections. But beach life, yachting and nostalgia has rescued the island from oblivion, so to celebrate leisure, SOL gives you the Nantucket Sprint - 25nm in 29er_XX’s from east of Tuckernuck Island across the sound to a finish just inside the mouth of the harbour. Enjoy!
Race 1936
INFO by brainaid.de
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Puil's Practice Palaver
Nearly there; only 2500nm to go, round the Horn and up the Red Sea to Suez into what will more than likely be more headwinds for this sixth leg of our African circumnavigation, to be followed in September by a final sneaky dash up the canal back to where we started all those months ago. We’ll be sailing a not entirely appropriate-for-upwind-work 60ft Trimaran!
Race #1859
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Gulf of St Lawrence - test - Mirek
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Race starts: Apr 21st 17:00
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Stefan's Duck Pond
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1900
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Trapped Camel
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Race starts: Aug 21st 15:03
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Caravanserai
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Race starts: Aug 08th 17:00
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Patrick's Playpen
Welcome to the legendary "Westcoaster," a race that has tested sailors for over 50 years. Spanning 435 nautical miles, this iconic journey takes racers from Melbourne, across the formidable Bass Strait, and around Tasmania's rugged west coast to the finish line in Hobart. Organized by the Ocean Racing Club of Victoria, the Westcoaster is renowned for its challenging conditions and adventurous spirit. This year, our SOLers will tackle the course in the swift and capable First 47.7, a yacht launched by Beneteau in 2000, built for speed and endurance in long ocean races. Get ready for an exhilarating ride in one of Australia’s most celebrated yacht races!
Race #1841
INFO by brainaid.de
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Mirek's Mess & Canteen
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Race starts: Apr 26th 18:00
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Antarctica 1 of 3
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Race starts: Jan 27th 21:57
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Flinders Island TIMED Race 2024
Race #1776
INFO by brainaid.de
Ocean 50 PARTICULARS
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Tasman Double 2023 - Hobart to Sydney
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Race starts: Jan 02nd 02:00
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John's Test Zone
It's time to test your ocean racing skills in a variety of weathers as we head the 6400 NM between Hong Kong and Auckland in a fast Super Maxi 100. We'll be heading from a northern summer to a southern winter so keep plenty of cold weather gear and warm rum on board!
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1597
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calm's Practice Race
Last raced in 2021, we return to Boston for another race to Newport. And just like in 2021, the chosen boat is once again the speedy R/P 66. This is a TIMED race so pick your winds wisely and see how quickly you can complete this 132nm run! For reference, the winning time in 2021 was 6:12:28.
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Race #1700
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ZONA DE PRUEBA DE MANUEL
Please note the displayed course is provisional; the actual course will be set after the IRL course is announced at the skipper's briefing 48 hours before the start, and no later than 24 hours before the start.
Race #1561
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San Sebastian to La Rochelle 2021
Once again, our SOL race will be shared with a group of Polish sailors, representing one of the stages of their Virtual Training Cruise around Europe. 171 nm in Delphia 47s across the not always calm Bay of Biscay from San Sebastian to La Rochelle will undoubtedly be one to test their skills. Welcome/Witajcie and we wish you all fair winds.
Race #1441
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Aland Sea TIMED Race
Norrtalje Segelsallskap, 70km NE of Stockholm was founded in 1920, and time was when the society’s season opened with a challenging offshore race from the club line off Flaten island at the mouth of the long and narrow Norrtaljeviken, out onto a triangular course around the Aland Sea, to finish at Simpnas slightly to the north on Bjorko island - some 78nm in total. A fine race that SOL, being from these parts, ran annually up until 2013. Last run in autumn 2018, we return here to race the course again in the form a TIMED RUN in spanking new Club Swan 50s.
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Race #1444
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Bimmer's Test Zone
What about a speedy X-362 380nm race in the waters off S America, just to blow cobwebs away!!
Race #1415
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Antarctica 3 of 3
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Race starts: Sep 16th 11:13
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BLANK POLAR
Race starts: Feb 16th 00:00
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