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Posted by raven  |
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Hi!
As of late, the weather updates seems to dictate the outcome of the race rather than individual sailing (although, of course, also important). The perfect strategy might get ruined by the new weather or a real poor one boosted to a win. I know this might resemble the real world where the weather is an unknown constant but the radical changes we're getting every 12 hours isn't very realistic  and what about the poor sailors that normally sleep at 5.45 or 17.45 CET? They can basically be thrown of course by a new nasty weather while sleeping.
I'm not sure it's possible but I would vote for a weather system that perhaps is less like the real weather but easier to use in the game. Say each new weather forecast blends in with the old one and at shorter intervals than today. Then it would more gradually change and the weather for the closest hours would be more fixed. Also, this would prevent sailors used to GRIBS from reading the weather updates before all other sailors as that data isn't necessarily what goes in the game. Wouldn't that be nice? |
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Posted by Eddie C. Dost  |
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One way to get a gradual change between weather updates would be to interpolate between the weather systems. Usually the weather data is available in 3h increments. In between there is interpolation over time anyway.
You get new weather at (shortly before) 0600 and 1800 UTC. 1200 UTC and 0000 UTC could also be used. Now you could interpolate from 0600 UTC to 1200 UTC from the old weather to the new weather, this would make the change more gradual. This would of course still be predeterminal by sailors smart enough. There is a way to go around this and make the game even more realistic: Take the normal weather forecast as that what is shown in the client. Everybody may download this using UGrib or similar. But the wind you experience on board your ship is not what is in the forecast. For this you take weather from one of the slightly different forecasts run to produce trends in weather. There are 20 or more of these each day. Pick a different one at random and do not transfer this to the client, only the server knows which weather is active. Interpolate between old and new weather and it will be almost impossible to guess which exact trend forecast is active on the server. I am willing to go into more details on this if SOL wants this. Please contact me by e-mail in this case. Fair winds, Eddie _/)_/)_/)
The sea is lovely, dark, and deep, But I have promises to keep, And miles to sail before I sleep, And miles to sail before I sleep. |
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Posted by SWE54  |
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I agree that the weather can bring surprices sometimes but on the other hand that's just what real weather does.
A more frequent update could smooth things out and make things more realistic but do not create any weather data. In real life you get a forecast and it is not always the real weather mathes and the new forecast will be different from the old, as seen so many times on TV..
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Posted by raven |
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That might be true but we're not sailing in real weather. We're sailing on fixed weather for 12 hours and then on new fixed weather for 12 hours and it's when we move from one forecast to the next it's messed up.
Perfect solution would be to have forecasts generated every second (I know, unrealistic) then it would be like sailing in real weather... |
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Posted by jakob  |
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Hi all,
First, let me express my pleasure over this discussion! Most of what you all say is correct. Let me declare our intention: To make the racing conditions as realistic as possible. Having this said, the more tricky q is to define "realistic". We have not spent too much time into this issue but I realise that maybe we should. In this process we really appreciate your input. The current system aims at using best possible forecatst. This is how it works today: Two times per day (maybe we could crank it up to 4?!) we get new forecasts in GRIB-format. The forecasts contain weather at certain time steps. Between these time steps the server interpolates in time to shuffle boats around in a continuously changing weather system. Thus, "now"- time is in practice always between to time steps. When a new forecast arrive we keep the two time steps we are currently interpolating between but exchange all following time steps for the new ones. As a consequence we typically know exactly what the weather is going to be until the next forecast arrives. Now, what should we do? What is the aim? Is it to keep sailing in the best possible forecasts (as today) or is it to manipulate the forecasts to be "fairly good" but less predictable (as IRL)? I do not know? All ideas are welcome and the more specific suggestions we get the bigger the chance of implementation
Regards Jakob ...one of the guys behind the game... |
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Posted by NZL_PaulR  |
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I favour the weather to be as realistic as possible, as this is excellent training for real life sailing.
The weather one experiences on the ocean is NEVER as forecast. It is similar, but earlier or late, more or less pressure and/or wind speed; and the angle changes constantly. Storms are stronger and calms last longer. Further on an ocean race, you never spend 24/7 listening to the forecasts. You generally get forcasts at certain times of the day/night, sometimes often missing them or not bothering for a day or two, depending upon where in the world you are. Weatherfax has made this simple; but it still happens at specific times and with significant time periods between forecasts. The internet has vastly improved the ability to receive updated weather information but what would you do if that failed? You would fall back to shortwave forecasts with hand drawn sketches only. So the challenge and rewards of SOL is the ability to practice tactics and being able to see what the fleet is doing as well. Analysis, guess work and finally luck all play a part. Losing that challange with "ideal and stable" weather would I believe be the death knell to SOL. As for times of forecasts, then having the same update at the same hour is also not really realistic. Perhaps one answer is to use the time schedules of forecasts available from local radio stations for say the average of the top 20% of the fleet. Then again, one normally only listens by preference to radio stations that broadcast from your own country (as you trust them) and in your own language as first choice. Losing that real life weather guessing and never getting any lucky breaks would make SOL dead boring, IMHO. If it breaks, it's not strong enough! |
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Posted by jakob |
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One more thing after discussion with Kalle: Although it is a bit unnatural to have perfect forecasts for 12h at the time we have to realize that some users do not watch SOL all day long. If we disturb the forecasts we make life harder for those users...
...one of the guys behind the game... |
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Posted by raven |
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Most of these points and ideas are valid. I would still argue that if nothing else, keep one more of the 3-hour forecasts when updating. Ie, if the updates is at 17.45 save 15, 18 and 21 from before. As it is now you have around 15 minutes to prepare for the new change rather than 3 hours which would make a huge difference
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Posted by kalle  |
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I think increasing the inter-forecast interpolation to 3h is a cup of breakfast cereal for our algorithmic mastermind Jakob
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Posted by jakob |
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Good point!
Also, I talked to Weathertech today about getting 4 forecasts per day. Would that be an improvement? ...one of the guys behind the game... |
Races
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Garagiste's Test Lab
Race #1939
INFOby brainaid.de
RC 44 Particulars
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RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
23 August at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Aug 10th 12:00 Registration will open soon
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Patricks Test
Race #1932
INFO by brainaid.de
Young 88 PARTICULARS
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Joanne's Test Race Zone
Race #1847
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Ranking: SYC - RED
Race starts: Jul 25th 12:00 Registration Closed
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Marstrand to Cowes 2025
We invite you to another race, which will kick off the third quarter of our ARCH series. We'll set off from Marstrand, Sweden, which, along with Skagen, Denmark, marks the line commonly recognised as the border separating the Baltic Sea from the North Sea. The 650nm route will take our Ripitide 50 across the North Sea and the English Channel to Cowes, England. Watch out for the fast ferries crossing the Channel from Calais to Dover 😊.
Race #1935
INFO from brainaid.de
Riptide 50 PARTICULARS
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Ranking:
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Race starts: Jul 21st 17:00 Registration Open!
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Nantucket Sprint 2025
Welcome to Nantucket, from whence Herman Melville’s Cap’n Ahab sailed round The Horn into the northern Pacific Ocean to hunt the gray whale - whose migrations are celebrated elsewhere in SOL’s Q4 schedule - he never to return. And whaling too, as the 19th C progressed, like Ahab disappeared from Nantucket as the harbour silted up and mainland Massachusetts whaling stations benefited from rail connections. But beach life, yachting and nostalgia has rescued the island from oblivion, so to celebrate leisure, SOL gives you the Nantucket Sprint - 25nm in 29er_XX’s from east of Tuckernuck Island across the sound to a finish just inside the mouth of the harbour. Enjoy!
Race 1936
INFO by brainaid.de
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Puil's Practice Palaver
Nearly there; only 2500nm to go, round the Horn and up the Red Sea to Suez into what will more than likely be more headwinds for this sixth leg of our African circumnavigation, to be followed in September by a final sneaky dash up the canal back to where we started all those months ago. We’ll be sailing a not entirely appropriate-for-upwind-work 60ft Trimaran!
Race #1859
INFOby brainaid.de
60ft Trimaran PARTICULARS
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Race starts: Jun 03rd 11:30 Registration Open!
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Gulf of St Lawrence - test - Mirek
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Race starts: Apr 21st 17:00
Registration Open!
Stefan's Duck Pond
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1900
INFO by brainaid.de
Orange 125 PARTICULARS
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Ranking: OCQ3 - OCCH - SUPSOL - SYC
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Trapped Camel
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Race starts: Aug 21st 15:03
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Caravanserai
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Race starts: Aug 08th 17:00
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Patrick's Playpen
Welcome to the legendary "Westcoaster," a race that has tested sailors for over 50 years. Spanning 435 nautical miles, this iconic journey takes racers from Melbourne, across the formidable Bass Strait, and around Tasmania's rugged west coast to the finish line in Hobart. Organized by the Ocean Racing Club of Victoria, the Westcoaster is renowned for its challenging conditions and adventurous spirit. This year, our SOLers will tackle the course in the swift and capable First 47.7, a yacht launched by Beneteau in 2000, built for speed and endurance in long ocean races. Get ready for an exhilarating ride in one of Australia’s most celebrated yacht races!
Race #1841
INFO by brainaid.de
First 47.7 PARTICULARS
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Mirek's Mess & Canteen
music deleted
Race starts: Apr 26th 18:00
Registration Closed
Antarctica 1 of 3
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Race starts: Jan 27th 21:57
Registration Open!
Flinders Island TIMED Race 2024
Race #1776
INFO by brainaid.de
Ocean 50 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
TRQ1 - TRCH - SUPSOL - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
27 January at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Jan 14th 12:00 Registration Open!
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Tasman Double 2023 - Hobart to Sydney
music deleted
Race starts: Jan 02nd 02:00
Registration Open!
John's Test Zone
It's time to test your ocean racing skills in a variety of weathers as we head the 6400 NM between Hong Kong and Auckland in a fast Super Maxi 100. We'll be heading from a northern summer to a southern winter so keep plenty of cold weather gear and warm rum on board!
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1597
INFOby brainaid.de
Super Maxi 100 PARTICULARS
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Ranking:
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Race starts: Sep 01st 04:00
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calm's Practice Race
Last raced in 2021, we return to Boston for another race to Newport. And just like in 2021, the chosen boat is once again the speedy R/P 66. This is a TIMED race so pick your winds wisely and see how quickly you can complete this 132nm run! For reference, the winning time in 2021 was 6:12:28.
RE-REGISTER HERE to race again after finishing a run
Race #1700
INFO by brainaid.de
R/P 66 PARTICULARS
NAM_AWIP WX Updates:
0245 / 0845 / 1445 / 2045
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RACE CLOSE: Sunday, 18 August at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Aug 05th 12:00
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ZONA DE PRUEBA DE MANUEL
Please note the displayed course is provisional; the actual course will be set after the IRL course is announced at the skipper's briefing 48 hours before the start, and no later than 24 hours before the start.
Race #1561
INFOby brainaid.de
Young 88 PARTICULARS
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San Sebastian to La Rochelle 2021
Once again, our SOL race will be shared with a group of Polish sailors, representing one of the stages of their Virtual Training Cruise around Europe. 171 nm in Delphia 47s across the not always calm Bay of Biscay from San Sebastian to La Rochelle will undoubtedly be one to test their skills. Welcome/Witajcie and we wish you all fair winds.
Race #1441
INFOby brainaid.de
Delphia 47 PARTICULARS
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Ranking: SYC
Race starts: Mar 05th 17:00
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Aland Sea TIMED Race
Norrtalje Segelsallskap, 70km NE of Stockholm was founded in 1920, and time was when the society’s season opened with a challenging offshore race from the club line off Flaten island at the mouth of the long and narrow Norrtaljeviken, out onto a triangular course around the Aland Sea, to finish at Simpnas slightly to the north on Bjorko island - some 78nm in total. A fine race that SOL, being from these parts, ran annually up until 2013. Last run in autumn 2018, we return here to race the course again in the form a TIMED RUN in spanking new Club Swan 50s.
RE-REGISTER HERE to race again after finishing a run.
Race #1444
INFO by brainaid.de
Club Swan 50 Particulars
WX Updates:
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RANKING:
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RACE CLOSE: Sunday, 28 February at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Feb 15th 12:00
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Bimmer's Test Zone
What about a speedy X-362 380nm race in the waters off S America, just to blow cobwebs away!!
Race #1415
INFOby brainaid.de
X-362 PARTICULARS
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ALT. CLIENT:Classic
Race starts: Dec 21st 16:00
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Antarctica 3 of 3
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Race starts: Sep 16th 11:13
Registration Closed
BLANK POLAR
Race starts: Feb 16th 00:00
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