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Posted by SKOVSER  |
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In my view, the manual is pretty clear. In chapter 1.5 it states: Marks must be rounded in the direction indicated by the arrows in the client.
Perhaps we could add something like ... "if the mark is placed on an Island, the Island have to be rounded". Win also explain it very clear, when he says: the mark must be contained INSIDE the whole track. And NOW - let's see some sportmanship in this fine Yacht Club please! Happy sailing and good wind, /Niels |
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Posted by 76Trombones  |
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I'm looking forward to the new rulebook
 I hope we don't have to round every island that has a mark on it though! Writing rules isn't easy!
Please stop quoting only fragments of the discussion. Two or three lines later Kalle realised that the arrow argument wasn't enforceable. SOL could have manually unrounded the involved boats (and still could, for that matter), but it was found after analysis to not be defensible. The server was wrong yes. Normally the server decides all disputes, but SOL checked to see if the manual could be used to resolve the issue. The manual does not contain any rule that says the rounding is invalid. It does contain a "rule" that says that your rounding is valid if the server tells you it is. Rules have to be taken at face value. The fact that we all know that they are wrong/incomplete means that we need to fix the rules. You can't rewrite the rules to fix the results of a race, here or IRL. The pink line can't be used because it clearly shows a rounding approaching from the wrong side, against the arrows, which is spelled out. The diagram can't be used to show that an in-an-out rounding is not a "green" one because without anything to indicate otherwise, who's to say that the green line doesn't backtrack just outside the frame of the pic? Besides, there are other legal roundings that are not shown - are they invalid too? The boat was considered "rounded" when it approached from the correct side, crossed a line at an outside angle midway between those of the adjacent legs and the server marked it as having rounded. What we are discussing is an instance of "unrounding", which the updated code used to catch perfectly, and will again soon. Once the code is fixed, this won't be a problem again, but we still need a proper rulebook for just these sorts of situations. If we *had* had a rule that disqualified the rounding it would have been applied. |
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Posted by NZL_PaulR  |
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I don't think having a SoL RULE book is of benefit when there is already the ISAF Racing Rules of Sailing Book.
Why re-invent the wheel? Too Hard and will take too long to get developed and argued and corrected. Most of SoL sailors go sailing IRL, but in all different sized boats from small dinghy's fun sailing, to all shapes and sizes of cruising and racing yachts, up to round the World Racing (I've done all as above) and possibly these days some SoL sailors are on superyachts 30m+ and America's Cups multis but I don't know for certain. So we have all been exposed to the ISAF Rule book. Certainly some ISAF rules are not applicable to SoL, but some important ones are. It is great that new SoL'ers e.g. PetrM are participating and doing well on SoL. Welcome I say to them. Now all we need to do is refer them to those ISAF Rules that ARE applicable in SoL. The simplest being that if a string was laid over your wake, and then pulled tight, will it show you have rounded ALL the marks in the correct ORDER and on the CORRECT side. I know I posted comments about this a few years ago. See ISAF RRS 28. 76T's diagram is good. GREEN is OK BLUE only rounded on the second crossing but on the string test is OK. PINK did NOT round correctly. So we only need to add this diagram and comments to the Instructions Manual for all. Arguements about tracks outside the jpg diagram are not applicable, but can be solved by adding a "previous" and "next" mark to 76T's diagram. So Welcome to all new SoLers and thank you PetrM for acknowledging your lack of real life sailing, good luck for the future and may somebody locally take you out on their boat soon. Simple solution as IRL PetrM is DSQ and that has happened at sometime in our lives to most, if not all of us!!. Cheers --- Last Edited by NZL_PaulR at 2011-07-17 02:40:33 --- If it breaks, it's not strong enough! |
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Posted by Rod  |
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I hope that all, who are participating in SOL, view it as an education in Sailing---I know that I do. I radio-sail rather than in full size boats---but I sail here to learn something about it all. I hope that others do so too, even if they do not sail, have never sailed. I hope that, if in the future, you find yourself in a sailboat, you will then know how to sail, upwind, downwind, across the wind. You will know what a 'start line' is , how to finish, how to round a buoy, even how to register for a race.
This is not an 'Arcade game', it is the experience of sailing---just that part that is the responsibility of the 'Navigator', but nevertheless, this, too, is part of sailing. I hope and wish that SOL conforms with all of the spirit and the rules of sailing and racing---because, otherwise, why would we all bother???? We could just play "Pacman" instead...... If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy. |
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Posted by Rod |
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Forgive the above 'rant'. I made my living as an educator----scratch me deep enough, and I spring up and start EDUCATING If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy. |
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Posted by 76Trombones |
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This has been a very good education in the application of racing rules and the need for unambiguous ones. The reason that the IRL rules work is a hundred years of this sort of discussion...
I very much like the idea of basing our wording on the ISAF rules, but we do need to maintain a separate document, even if that only references the relevant bits. We don't have boat-to-boat interaction, so I can only think of a few cases that need written rules. Starts, roundings, finishes and maybe the all-consuming boatsitting (and bot, eventually) issues need explicit rules that we can fall back on when the server fails us. |
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Posted by NZL_PaulR |
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I cannot forget Rod's rave !!!!
It is simple, good and I agree and interestingly is from a "non-sailor". Sol is not an Arcade game. How right you are. See Home Page re SSANZ race which explains why I was sailing IRL and not entered in SoL. Such are the choices we make. My only hope is that somebody where he lives, takes him sailing IRL ASAP. Cheers Rod If it breaks, it's not strong enough! |
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Posted by NZL_PaulR |
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76T:
Perhaps we only need to add the RRS rules, preferably extracted in full for those unfortunates who do NOT keep a copy beside their PC's, Laptops, at work, in the car, beside their bed, in their sailing bag or even onboard. That way, if the ISAF change a rule in their collective wisdom, we only need to alter our copy of the old rule. This will fit in exactly with the SoL policy on the home page to "be as realistic as possible". Perhaps the appropriate casebook decisions and interpretations should be available as well. That would help Rod in his "educating" mission in life. Thanks for your supportive comments Cheers --- Last Edited by NZL_PaulR at 2011-07-17 02:39:37 --- If it breaks, it's not strong enough! |
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Posted by KiaKaha  |
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It was extremely evident that by the lack off congrats(none)to the winner that the rounding was wrong.
In order to leave the mark to starboard you would have to do a 360 around it, which obviously couldn't have been done.Saying that the server did not pick it up is no excuse to allow it. As computers have been overruled in sport before now, after viewing video evidence of an incident(in this ,viewing the track).Also ignorance is no excuse for doing the wrong thing. After reading the chat Petrm should have done the right thing and gone back to the mark and rounding it properly or retired from the race, Which would have been the honourable thing to do!!! There have been two Tall Ships races held and neither winner has really been valid. ita_2011 won the first race.A race which did not meet the criteria that they self imposed upon themselves. 1. The race was not over 999 nml 2.The race was not an ocean race 3.The race was not part of a series So I will stand by my decision and wont be taking part in any further races in SOL. Haere ra KiaKaha --- Last Edited by KiaKaha at 2011-07-17 08:37:14 --- |
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Posted by Schakel |
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In the scuderia's defense, the Tall Ships was initially planned as a series. It was decided only later that the series would be excluded from the rankings.
-- Cheers, Philip (I should add that by the time that decision was made, the first race was well underway. Motivation for the exclusion is found here: http://tinyurl.com/69czohj) --- Last Edited by Schakel at 2011-07-17 08:46:11 --- |
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Marstrand to Cowes 2025
We invite you to another race, which will kick off the third quarter of our ARCH series. We'll set off from Marstrand, Sweden, which, along with Skagen, Denmark, marks the line commonly recognised as the border separating the Baltic Sea from the North Sea. The 650nm route will take our Ripitide 50 across the North Sea and the English Channel to Cowes, England. Watch out for the fast ferries crossing the Channel from Calais to Dover 😊.
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Nantucket Sprint 2025
Welcome to Nantucket, from whence Herman Melville’s Cap’n Ahab sailed round The Horn into the northern Pacific Ocean to hunt the gray whale - whose migrations are celebrated elsewhere in SOL’s Q4 schedule - he never to return. And whaling too, as the 19th C progressed, like Ahab disappeared from Nantucket as the harbour silted up and mainland Massachusetts whaling stations benefited from rail connections. But beach life, yachting and nostalgia has rescued the island from oblivion, so to celebrate leisure, SOL gives you the Nantucket Sprint - 25nm in 29er_XX’s from east of Tuckernuck Island across the sound to a finish just inside the mouth of the harbour. Enjoy!
Race 1936
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Gulf of St Lawrence - test - Mirek
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Stefan's Duck Pond
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Caravanserai
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Patrick's Playpen
Welcome to the legendary "Westcoaster," a race that has tested sailors for over 50 years. Spanning 435 nautical miles, this iconic journey takes racers from Melbourne, across the formidable Bass Strait, and around Tasmania's rugged west coast to the finish line in Hobart. Organized by the Ocean Racing Club of Victoria, the Westcoaster is renowned for its challenging conditions and adventurous spirit. This year, our SOLers will tackle the course in the swift and capable First 47.7, a yacht launched by Beneteau in 2000, built for speed and endurance in long ocean races. Get ready for an exhilarating ride in one of Australia’s most celebrated yacht races!
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Antarctica 1 of 3
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Flinders Island TIMED Race 2024
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Tasman Double 2023 - Hobart to Sydney
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John's Test Zone
It's time to test your ocean racing skills in a variety of weathers as we head the 6400 NM between Hong Kong and Auckland in a fast Super Maxi 100. We'll be heading from a northern summer to a southern winter so keep plenty of cold weather gear and warm rum on board!
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calm's Practice Race
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ZONA DE PRUEBA DE MANUEL
Please note the displayed course is provisional; the actual course will be set after the IRL course is announced at the skipper's briefing 48 hours before the start, and no later than 24 hours before the start.
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Once again, our SOL race will be shared with a group of Polish sailors, representing one of the stages of their Virtual Training Cruise around Europe. 171 nm in Delphia 47s across the not always calm Bay of Biscay from San Sebastian to La Rochelle will undoubtedly be one to test their skills. Welcome/Witajcie and we wish you all fair winds.
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Aland Sea TIMED Race
Norrtalje Segelsallskap, 70km NE of Stockholm was founded in 1920, and time was when the society’s season opened with a challenging offshore race from the club line off Flaten island at the mouth of the long and narrow Norrtaljeviken, out onto a triangular course around the Aland Sea, to finish at Simpnas slightly to the north on Bjorko island - some 78nm in total. A fine race that SOL, being from these parts, ran annually up until 2013. Last run in autumn 2018, we return here to race the course again in the form a TIMED RUN in spanking new Club Swan 50s.
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Bimmer's Test Zone
What about a speedy X-362 380nm race in the waters off S America, just to blow cobwebs away!!
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