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Posted by Chappo  |
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I have not checked the forum (is there a search function? ) so this has probably been thrashed out years ago but here is my suggestion. Do others see merit in the possibility of calculating handicap results (or even handicap starts) for some of the ocean races to encourage newer members to persevere with developing their SOL skills. I was thinking that by using the results of the previous race run the year before, you have an immediate TCF (Time Correction Factor). So if the winner's elapsed time in the same race the year before was say 100 hours, then all other finishers for say the top 300 (to exclude the results of yachts that grounded for an extended period and then went on to finish) have a TCF factor. So a yacht finishing in 110 hours has a TCF factor of 100/110 or .90909 applied to their finishing time in the current race to get their handicap adjusted time. The whole idea is only feasible if it is heavily computerised to avoid it being a manually time consuming task. Amongst the many very experienced computer program writers in SOL, (I am not one), I would hope it would not be a big job to write such a program using the results of the previous years races, calculating the TCF and then applying it to the next race results to produce a table of the handicap performances. I appreciate any handicap system is open to abuse, for example some skippers may decide to finish just under 300 so that they can get a very favourable handicap and then blitz everyone next year. But hopefully these abuses are a small minority, are quite transparent and there is still a good challenge for many of the newer members who have trouble cracking the top 200, 150, 100 etc. I would be pleased to hear your comments.
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Posted by zero  |
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Peter,
Your system works when the boat is being sailed at all times at the best of the crew abilities. Like in real live sailing. Here on SOL the boats are oten left alone on some delayed command (DC) which we all know are not always optimum. The reason for DC's is that we all have others things to do beside virtual sailing. It is impossible to know how much dedication a SOL sailor was able to put on a particular race. Perhaps one race he/she was lucky to be sitting on the computer 85% of the race and them the next race life outside was calling and it was only 20% of dedication time for SOL. The system would be comparing apples with oranges. As you probably already know, win races on SOL is very difficult. (As is in real life sailing, by the way) But, you can do well here on SOL if you manage to stay awake and near the computer thru out the duration of the race. In my opinion there is no correction time system that would substitute the dedication of a SOL sailor. There are many posts in the forum about divide the fleet in classes. This is a somewhat "hot" subject within the community, so read the posts at your own risk 
In the meantime have fun SOL'ing, it is not always about wining. Antonio (zero) |
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Posted by Chappo |
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Yep good points Antonio, I guess I am assuming the skipper would be putting in the same amount of time he/she did in the same race last time because the race would start at the same time so have similar waking sleeping hours as the last race. As you say you can always go better in SOL if you put in more time on the computer and do more nav projections. It is clear that the better skippers put in more time and have better tools than the average sailor and also time share the yacht in some cases.
I note you have been achieving fantastic results, especially in the shorter races. I basically race against myself, ie try to get better results more consistently. That becomes hard when you are getting results like yours! Still is always challenging fun. |
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Posted by Jeroen  |
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Hi Peter,
Interesting point you brought up. We have had a interesting race recently where we did some rated results after the race and people found it verry interesting. I will have a good look at your suggestion but like Zero pointed out a Sol boat gets a broad range of attention. This could impact the rankings you suggest. But I will have a closer look at it for sure. Thanks Jeroen I provide feedback and am admin of Sailonline.
hometown: Groningen, The Netherlands |
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Posted by Chappo |
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Thanks Jeroen, you will now be working 25 hours a day. Interesting to ponder whether a sailors attention level will increase just because they have a chance of a better handicap result. But if they do they will also be improving their chances of a better scratch result, thereby affecting their handicap the next time they race that course!! Just like IRL sailing! I have only brought this up as a way of better engaging the newer SOL'er while they improve their scratch racing skills.
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Posted by Rod  |
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It occurs to me, after reading all the forum posts on the handicapping system, that if all possible factors are taken into account, over a long history of racing, with sailors of varying (but consistent) ability, and yachts of differing performance, that the end result is that all the boats in a race will have adjusted times that result in every yacht being identically FIRST-----and I'm not sure that this is the intention of yacht racing!!! --- Last Edited by Rod at 2011-05-26 16:24:26 --- If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy. |
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Posted by Chappo |
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True Rod, in a perfect world, but isn't the aim of handicapping to find the performance that is "out of the box" by that person's standards, ie they sailed a blinder, got a much higher % of the nav calls right than they normally do. It is a reward for an "out of the skin" performance.
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Posted by Rod |
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Each individual 'knows' if he's done well--and so do all his friends, and his rivals. If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy. |
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Posted by Chappo |
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That is correct in a scratch result. I am mainly interested in encouraging newer SOL'ers to not be frustrated that although they may have improved from finishing 250 to say under 200, that may equate to a top 50 result on handicap so that is cause for a double celebration and would hopefully motivate them more to keep racing. (Chappo)
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Posted by 76Trombones  |
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We're starting to talk about two different things: boat handicapping is pretty fixed IRL, and absolute on SOL. Performance handicapping is a whole different matter.
Ignoring multiple boat choices for the time being: The idea with performance handicapping is 100% to try to get everyone to finish "1st". What this gives you is a measure of performance relative to yourself and like boats. It rewards effort/success in individual races, and overall your performance handicap is representative of your standing in the fleet. *IF* SOL were to adopt performance handicapping, your "rating" essentially replaces your SYC rank. Every race that you count towards your rating is an opportunity to make your life more difficult. There's _lots_ to commend in this system. Boat handicapping is designed to level a mixed fleet (very common IRL). Ideally, equal effort/skill/luck produces identical results. The reason that "hybrid" systems are popular (eg PHRF) is that the point of racing is to test yourself. In a small fleet, put a hot team in a fast boat and sure they win the local RTB series every summer... woo.. Performance handicapping give them something to work for - ditto for the rookies in the Cal 20.  --- Last Edited by 76Trombones at 2011-05-27 10:57:46 --- |
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Garagiste's Test Lab
Race #1939
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Patricks Test
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Joanne's Test Race Zone
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Marstrand to Cowes 2025
We invite you to another race, which will kick off the third quarter of our ARCH series. We'll set off from Marstrand, Sweden, which, along with Skagen, Denmark, marks the line commonly recognised as the border separating the Baltic Sea from the North Sea. The 650nm route will take our Ripitide 50 across the North Sea and the English Channel to Cowes, England. Watch out for the fast ferries crossing the Channel from Calais to Dover 😊.
Race #1935
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Nantucket Sprint 2025
Welcome to Nantucket, from whence Herman Melville’s Cap’n Ahab sailed round The Horn into the northern Pacific Ocean to hunt the gray whale - whose migrations are celebrated elsewhere in SOL’s Q4 schedule - he never to return. And whaling too, as the 19th C progressed, like Ahab disappeared from Nantucket as the harbour silted up and mainland Massachusetts whaling stations benefited from rail connections. But beach life, yachting and nostalgia has rescued the island from oblivion, so to celebrate leisure, SOL gives you the Nantucket Sprint - 25nm in 29er_XX’s from east of Tuckernuck Island across the sound to a finish just inside the mouth of the harbour. Enjoy!
Race 1936
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Puil's Practice Palaver
Nearly there; only 2500nm to go, round the Horn and up the Red Sea to Suez into what will more than likely be more headwinds for this sixth leg of our African circumnavigation, to be followed in September by a final sneaky dash up the canal back to where we started all those months ago. We’ll be sailing a not entirely appropriate-for-upwind-work 60ft Trimaran!
Race #1859
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Gulf of St Lawrence - test - Mirek
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Race starts: Apr 21st 17:00
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Stefan's Duck Pond
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1900
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Trapped Camel
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Race starts: Aug 21st 15:03
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Caravanserai
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Race starts: Aug 08th 17:00
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Patrick's Playpen
Welcome to the legendary "Westcoaster," a race that has tested sailors for over 50 years. Spanning 435 nautical miles, this iconic journey takes racers from Melbourne, across the formidable Bass Strait, and around Tasmania's rugged west coast to the finish line in Hobart. Organized by the Ocean Racing Club of Victoria, the Westcoaster is renowned for its challenging conditions and adventurous spirit. This year, our SOLers will tackle the course in the swift and capable First 47.7, a yacht launched by Beneteau in 2000, built for speed and endurance in long ocean races. Get ready for an exhilarating ride in one of Australia’s most celebrated yacht races!
Race #1841
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Mirek's Mess & Canteen
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Race starts: Apr 26th 18:00
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Antarctica 1 of 3
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Race starts: Jan 27th 21:57
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Flinders Island TIMED Race 2024
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Tasman Double 2023 - Hobart to Sydney
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Race starts: Jan 02nd 02:00
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John's Test Zone
It's time to test your ocean racing skills in a variety of weathers as we head the 6400 NM between Hong Kong and Auckland in a fast Super Maxi 100. We'll be heading from a northern summer to a southern winter so keep plenty of cold weather gear and warm rum on board!
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1597
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calm's Practice Race
Last raced in 2021, we return to Boston for another race to Newport. And just like in 2021, the chosen boat is once again the speedy R/P 66. This is a TIMED race so pick your winds wisely and see how quickly you can complete this 132nm run! For reference, the winning time in 2021 was 6:12:28.
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Race #1700
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ZONA DE PRUEBA DE MANUEL
Please note the displayed course is provisional; the actual course will be set after the IRL course is announced at the skipper's briefing 48 hours before the start, and no later than 24 hours before the start.
Race #1561
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San Sebastian to La Rochelle 2021
Once again, our SOL race will be shared with a group of Polish sailors, representing one of the stages of their Virtual Training Cruise around Europe. 171 nm in Delphia 47s across the not always calm Bay of Biscay from San Sebastian to La Rochelle will undoubtedly be one to test their skills. Welcome/Witajcie and we wish you all fair winds.
Race #1441
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Aland Sea TIMED Race
Norrtalje Segelsallskap, 70km NE of Stockholm was founded in 1920, and time was when the society’s season opened with a challenging offshore race from the club line off Flaten island at the mouth of the long and narrow Norrtaljeviken, out onto a triangular course around the Aland Sea, to finish at Simpnas slightly to the north on Bjorko island - some 78nm in total. A fine race that SOL, being from these parts, ran annually up until 2013. Last run in autumn 2018, we return here to race the course again in the form a TIMED RUN in spanking new Club Swan 50s.
RE-REGISTER HERE to race again after finishing a run.
Race #1444
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Bimmer's Test Zone
What about a speedy X-362 380nm race in the waters off S America, just to blow cobwebs away!!
Race #1415
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Antarctica 3 of 3
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BLANK POLAR
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