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Posted by Smo  |
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Rod I don't see any point having more boats on me. Just more trouble. But I'll bet some people have. Does not help in Sol ranking. And of course you must be able to sail your boat from any computer anywhere.
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Posted by Rod  |
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My point was that there are specific rules. Unless those rules are changed, we should continue to obey them in both actuality and in the "spirit of the rules". "One boat" seems quite unambiguous to me. If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy. |
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Posted by Exmeromotu  |
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Once again I find myself in the middle of controversy...
Almost a year ago it was the SLI issue, now its the boatsitting issue. First things first; if NZL_undercover aka UC taking over Exmeromotu's cockpit caused any grief to anyone I sincerely apologize. I play this game not to win, but to hone my tactical and navigational (routing) skills. If my actions have taken away some level of the pleasure of the “SOL Experience” to anybody I am truly sorry. It is not my intention to take anything away from anybody, for that I am deeply sorry. I do hereby request for a RAF score (Retired After Finishing). Did I ask for UC's help at the end of Leg 6? No. We've established a good friendship thanks to SOL, we comment on tactics, strategy and we've done our fairshare of boatsitting for each other when "LIFE" gets in the way of SOLing. Even when one of us is taking a "flyer" we pretty much know what the other is thinking. Have I taken a peek at UC's boat and taken action when I suspect something is going wrong? You bet. In this case he was just returning the favor and I'm glad that he did. Before UC intervened I had skipped two updates, sailing on DC's that (on hindsight) weren't any good. When I finally got home on the wee hours of the night and found that I had split from the fleet I immediately gybed towards the fleet, erased all the remaining DC's and decided to wait 5 minutes for the 0430 UTC update which was just about to come in at any moment. I literally fell asleep at the laptop waiting for the update (Local time is UTC minus 4 hrs.). When I woke up, I found myself pointing towards the line. I looked at the chat and ITA_2011 had noticed that I had gone AWOL (Absent Without Official Leave) and UC had pointed Exmeromotu towards the line. Implying that ITA_2011 was trying to benefit from the situation is just plain baloney. I have the utmost respect for Piero (Winston_4), Andrea (ita10267), Antonio (ghibli) and Neill (NZL_undercover) and I'd be honored to sail IRL with any of them. I doubt very much that Rafa or Viking or the majority of SOLers would like to beat somebody just because the competition fell asleep. I'd rather be "pipped at the post" by somebody who got rescued in a time of need than win by "default"...but that's just me. About the whole situation...Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable?? I'll let you guys decide that issue, but the friends I've made while SOLing and keeping ALL SOLers striving to make this the best online sailing community is what it's really all about. The bottomline of this whole mess is that in order to be FAIR to ALL SOLers a RAF score is what I truly deserve for Leg 6, and I have no problem with that. Cheers, Antonio --- Last Edited by Exmeromotu at 2011-04-03 05:30:33 --- |
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Posted by AGage  |
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This just again emphasizes the rules for boatsitting need a somewhat more explicit definition, because I for one certainly thought the express request & permission of the boat's skipper was required to control their boat.
Personally I didn't find it at all fair this happened and I was nowhere near the rankings involved. As ybwlopud points out, when a friend explicitly asks you to boatsit is one thing - jumping in when you see someone drift off course is very much another. I mistakenly didn't set 2 DCs (but was quite sure I had) which cost me the win in Leg5. Like-wise while leading the Suedsee race, I drifted off to sleep and ran straight into an island. And I could continue to list other boats that have made similar errors. Anyway, Exmer's comment about 'winning by default' is just ridiculous. It is part of this game to make sure you manage sleep and set DCs etc OR explicitly ask a friend to boat-sit. Does this mean that dunbur won leg5 'by default'? because the only reason he passed me was I messed up. And that is precisely what won him the race - I made a critical error while dunbur did not - ergo he sailed the race better than I did. Im quite sure we have all finished 1 or more places higher as the result of competitors' error(s), be it navigational or from untimely falling asleep or setting a bad DC (or forgetting to set them). Often the ONLY way to pass a competitor is for them to make an error - and this is the same IRL or Virtual racing. IRL there are things like tuning/sail choice and boathandling to consider, and I have always thought of SOL's equivalent being setting accurate DCs or in general accurate control of your boat for the entire race. This is akin to (IRL) noticing Exmer was downwind without a Spi up, and jumping onto his boat to hoist one for him - it wouldnt be allowed. If I were rafa or Viking, I would be extrememly annoyed and calling for Exmer to be scratched, but he has done the right thing and requested it himself - thats is exactly what would happen here in an IRL race. How is it fair that one boat puts in the effort to ensure their boat is on track, yet is beaten by someone who they otherwise would have beaten if not for unsolicited assistance?? It cannot be considered cheating, as the parties involved did not directly benefit nor did they expect to, and Exmer certainly cant be held personally accountable, but it is most definitely UNFAIR, and should not be considered acceptable byt the SOL community. Again, I think the specific boat-sitting rules need clarification and more explicit stating, perhaps even other measures - like some form of official notification (on the forum even) that a boat-sit is going to occur. Heck, IRL regatta you need to post notification to all competitors if u change a crew, even just change some foils or something - why not here?? And should the rule be updated, it should read something to the effect of "Boat-sitting is allowed, within reason and when explicitly requested by the skipper of the boat being in question".... I am making no personal statements regarding anyone involved here, it wouldnt matter who it was, and those involved do have my utmost respect. But I fail to see any definition of fair that includes this type of thing. @Kalle: Sorry but saying "Max 1 boat per person, but no limit on number of persons per boat" isnt clear at all. When you boatsit, by definition 1 person has more than 1 boat?? I agree it isnt cheating, but unsolicited assistance should not be acceptable IMHO. And Exmer's comment above indicates this is not the first instance of this sort of thing. Sorry I rambled here....  I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__ |
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Posted by NZL_undercover  |
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Maybe in the future we will do this behind closed doors if that makes people feel happier..........ignorance is bliss.
My helping Exmeromotu was done as an act of friendship to help a fellow Soler that I really enjoy sailing against. I for one am getting very sick of all of the moaning and negativity that is starting to creep into Sol and it is really beginning to destroy the enjoyment of Sol for me. Is it because some of us are doing quite well in races or for some other reasons. Soon we will be moaning that boat..abc. has a better internet connection or a gruntier computer etc etc. Lets just get on with doing the races and not worry so much about what he or she might be or might not be doing. |
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Posted by NOR_Jawik  |
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I support you in everything you have mentioned and could certainly have added something extra to this, but you got it pretty good out in daylight.
Under the Adriatic race, I discovered that Capella was on land and now also Careka. I could have intervened and rescued the two, but let this be since this would not be fair to the others. The opportunity is there, but we do not practice this today. Had we decided to only one boat, this would have been otherwise. As you mention, to jump on board to your neighbor's boat to hoist the sail is not normal during the voyage. I have the perception that I am sailing well, but I need sleep and then it becomes a little gambling until I wake up. Just the way I wanted to experience this during a singelhanded on the boat. Alone. Then I discover that there is a crew of 4-6 people on board the neighbor. I have no chance to compete at these premises. I'm still alone in my boat. |
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Posted by Gilles  |
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really strange the whole discussion....
I made the same call "Exme! you are going back!, in the chat 2 days before (as he was really going in the OPPOSITE direction) and there where no complains/comment at all... May be because was just at the beginning of the leg?? Next time I will apply what UC suggest and forget the rule of friendship across the world generated by SOLing that had motivated my shout... --- Last Edited by Gilles at 2011-04-03 10:37:21 --- |
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Posted by ybwlopud  |
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Personally I do not think Exmer should be RAF. In this instance Exmer did not do anything wrong. The rules should be made clearer and in the future if this sort of thing goes on behind closed doors then it will be those people who are spoiling SOL.
I am not moaning and complaining by starting this thread, but just trying to clarify the rules so that SOL is fair to everyone. Falling asleep, mis setting DC's etc is the equivalent to IRL of breaking something on the boat by pushing to hard, its good to see the top boats make mistakes as it shows that they are like the rest of us...HUMAN  |
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Posted by ybwlopud |
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No problems making a shout, thats good, but surely if you are looking at the chat window you can see your boat in trouble??
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Posted by NOR_Jawik |
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Quote:
"The Barcelona World Race is the only first double-handed (two-crew) race around the world. This is a non-stop race with something outside assistance permitted, although subject two rules and penalties, an approach." SOL'S IMOC Global Challenge 2011 would be like a copy of The Barcelona World Race, I thought, - double-handed (two-crew) - and then it becomes something strange when an equally well find that some boats exceed that number of crew. The same experience when I sail single-handed and assistance from several crew turns out to assist other boats. This makes no sense to me when I try to add up to reality as closely as possible. If SOL says single-handed, double-handed or more crew on board, I take note of this and sail accordingly. The possibility of a good placement on the list are present at a double-handed boat when I myself am single-handed. But the same race against a boat with full crew, I can forget, but take note of this before I start. Better to gain 200 points over 600 on the list. |
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Marstrand to Cowes 2025
We invite you to another race, which will kick off the third quarter of our ARCH series. We'll set off from Marstrand, Sweden, which, along with Skagen, Denmark, marks the line commonly recognised as the border separating the Baltic Sea from the North Sea. The 650nm route will take our Ripitide 50 across the North Sea and the English Channel to Cowes, England. Watch out for the fast ferries crossing the Channel from Calais to Dover 😊.
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Nantucket Sprint 2025
Welcome to Nantucket, from whence Herman Melville’s Cap’n Ahab sailed round The Horn into the northern Pacific Ocean to hunt the gray whale - whose migrations are celebrated elsewhere in SOL’s Q4 schedule - he never to return. And whaling too, as the 19th C progressed, like Ahab disappeared from Nantucket as the harbour silted up and mainland Massachusetts whaling stations benefited from rail connections. But beach life, yachting and nostalgia has rescued the island from oblivion, so to celebrate leisure, SOL gives you the Nantucket Sprint - 25nm in 29er_XX’s from east of Tuckernuck Island across the sound to a finish just inside the mouth of the harbour. Enjoy!
Race 1936
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Nearly there; only 2500nm to go, round the Horn and up the Red Sea to Suez into what will more than likely be more headwinds for this sixth leg of our African circumnavigation, to be followed in September by a final sneaky dash up the canal back to where we started all those months ago. We’ll be sailing a not entirely appropriate-for-upwind-work 60ft Trimaran!
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Gulf of St Lawrence - test - Mirek
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Stefan's Duck Pond
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Trapped Camel
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Caravanserai
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Patrick's Playpen
Welcome to the legendary "Westcoaster," a race that has tested sailors for over 50 years. Spanning 435 nautical miles, this iconic journey takes racers from Melbourne, across the formidable Bass Strait, and around Tasmania's rugged west coast to the finish line in Hobart. Organized by the Ocean Racing Club of Victoria, the Westcoaster is renowned for its challenging conditions and adventurous spirit. This year, our SOLers will tackle the course in the swift and capable First 47.7, a yacht launched by Beneteau in 2000, built for speed and endurance in long ocean races. Get ready for an exhilarating ride in one of Australia’s most celebrated yacht races!
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Mirek's Mess & Canteen
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Antarctica 1 of 3
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Flinders Island TIMED Race 2024
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Tasman Double 2023 - Hobart to Sydney
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John's Test Zone
It's time to test your ocean racing skills in a variety of weathers as we head the 6400 NM between Hong Kong and Auckland in a fast Super Maxi 100. We'll be heading from a northern summer to a southern winter so keep plenty of cold weather gear and warm rum on board!
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calm's Practice Race
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ZONA DE PRUEBA DE MANUEL
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Once again, our SOL race will be shared with a group of Polish sailors, representing one of the stages of their Virtual Training Cruise around Europe. 171 nm in Delphia 47s across the not always calm Bay of Biscay from San Sebastian to La Rochelle will undoubtedly be one to test their skills. Welcome/Witajcie and we wish you all fair winds.
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Aland Sea TIMED Race
Norrtalje Segelsallskap, 70km NE of Stockholm was founded in 1920, and time was when the society’s season opened with a challenging offshore race from the club line off Flaten island at the mouth of the long and narrow Norrtaljeviken, out onto a triangular course around the Aland Sea, to finish at Simpnas slightly to the north on Bjorko island - some 78nm in total. A fine race that SOL, being from these parts, ran annually up until 2013. Last run in autumn 2018, we return here to race the course again in the form a TIMED RUN in spanking new Club Swan 50s.
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Bimmer's Test Zone
What about a speedy X-362 380nm race in the waters off S America, just to blow cobwebs away!!
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