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Posted by Blue_Magic  |
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hi all,
I'm enjoying the race to St. Barths but I wonder if the polars for the Beneteau Figaro might not be a bit conservative. I found a site that has an illustration of the boat with polar diagrams, and it would appear that this set shows them to be speedier off the wind in a bit of a blow. That would make sense given the relatively light displacement. Here's the link: http://www.brutsailing.com/theboats.htm Cheers Nick |
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Posted by Incognito  |
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Interesting. But you will notice that these polars are for 5 people on board. This race is doublehanded.
In addition, one thing is to achieve these speeds for a few hours, another to keep that pace for 3 weeks. Personally, I feel the SOL polar is quite realistic. Regards, Incognito |
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Posted by Blue_Magic |
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Agree with you about sustaining speed - but the extra crew weight would help most with the wind forward of around 120 deg. The polars as they sit are pretty close to my 29 ft displacement hulled C&C.- within about a half knot, which looks like extra waterline length to me brought about by the plumb bow on the Beneteau. However, my boat weighs 7500 lbs and should be considerably slower off the wind. Also, the double handed "hit" would be most apparent in sail handling evolutions- and that should show up in SOL by performance loss and slow regain speed after tacking etc.
--- Last Edited by Nick Thornton at 2010-04-21 22:23:26 --- |
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Posted by 76Trombones  |
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Alternate explanation, that covers many of our SOL boats...
It looks like the our Figaro polar was built from IMS/ORC VPP numbers, which only go to 20 knots on the certificates. Additionally, the data is given in fixed increments from upwind TWA of 52deg to downwind max of 150. Using only these points (see the text polar in the help tab) gives sort of a characteristic "feel" to the polars, including lower speeds in high winds. The 180 point is not supplied. The certificate data provides extra info in the form of up and downwind VMG angles and speeds, which nicely refine the shape of the curves. The excel tool I've been using includes this extra info and generates SOL-format tables with more detail. The 180deg value can be guessed at pretty accurately by studying the polar, which helps make the diagram "look" nice, even if it isn't a factor in our racing... Curves for windspeeds above 20kts can be estimated using knowledge of the boat, comparisons to similar types, any extra info that might be floating around and trends in the polar. The IMS/ORC tables are a great source of polar data for SOL racing. The new boats that we've been adding try to cover the above points! - 76Trombones |
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Posted by captjack1942  |
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One thing IMS Certification numbers do not account for is ability of lighter boats with wide sterns to plane or surf. This can add up to 7~8 knots to boat speed.
Just check the position of the real boats vs our fleet. http://transatag2r.geovoile.com/ From what I've seen of the weather, the real fleet is not sailing in wind in excess of 20 knots. Rather, it seems the trades that the real fleet is in are in the 14~17 knot range. --- Last Edited by captjack1942 at 2010-04-30 18:06:28 --- |
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Posted by Incognito |
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I am looking at the real fleet as well. And I have to admit to our polars are clearly too pessimistic.
I do not want to change polars in the middle of a race. But I will ask the race committee (read 76T) to come up with new polars for the Figaro. Regards, Francois |
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Posted by 76Trombones |
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It's an interesting problem for sure. We're not really *that* far behind the RL fleet. 250nm or so? 10-15% depending on how you juggle the different waypoint.
The polar needs a refresh, but capt is right about the windspeeds we've encountered. The 20kt cap hasn't really come into play. I still think that SOL weather gets rounded down... AND!!! (this just in) We are using the polar for the Beneteau Figaro... The Transat is being sailed in.... Beneteau Figaro 2s. Guess how much faster they are? 
Good polars for both, I'll clean them up and post them. |
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Marstrand to Cowes 2025
We invite you to another race, which will kick off the third quarter of our ARCH series. We'll set off from Marstrand, Sweden, which, along with Skagen, Denmark, marks the line commonly recognised as the border separating the Baltic Sea from the North Sea. The 650nm route will take our Ripitide 50 across the North Sea and the English Channel to Cowes, England. Watch out for the fast ferries crossing the Channel from Calais to Dover 😊.
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Nantucket Sprint 2025
Welcome to Nantucket, from whence Herman Melville’s Cap’n Ahab sailed round The Horn into the northern Pacific Ocean to hunt the gray whale - whose migrations are celebrated elsewhere in SOL’s Q4 schedule - he never to return. And whaling too, as the 19th C progressed, like Ahab disappeared from Nantucket as the harbour silted up and mainland Massachusetts whaling stations benefited from rail connections. But beach life, yachting and nostalgia has rescued the island from oblivion, so to celebrate leisure, SOL gives you the Nantucket Sprint - 25nm in 29er_XX’s from east of Tuckernuck Island across the sound to a finish just inside the mouth of the harbour. Enjoy!
Race 1936
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Puil's Practice Palaver
Nearly there; only 2500nm to go, round the Horn and up the Red Sea to Suez into what will more than likely be more headwinds for this sixth leg of our African circumnavigation, to be followed in September by a final sneaky dash up the canal back to where we started all those months ago. We’ll be sailing a not entirely appropriate-for-upwind-work 60ft Trimaran!
Race #1859
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Gulf of St Lawrence - test - Mirek
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Stefan's Duck Pond
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Race #1900
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Trapped Camel
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Caravanserai
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Patrick's Playpen
Welcome to the legendary "Westcoaster," a race that has tested sailors for over 50 years. Spanning 435 nautical miles, this iconic journey takes racers from Melbourne, across the formidable Bass Strait, and around Tasmania's rugged west coast to the finish line in Hobart. Organized by the Ocean Racing Club of Victoria, the Westcoaster is renowned for its challenging conditions and adventurous spirit. This year, our SOLers will tackle the course in the swift and capable First 47.7, a yacht launched by Beneteau in 2000, built for speed and endurance in long ocean races. Get ready for an exhilarating ride in one of Australia’s most celebrated yacht races!
Race #1841
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Mirek's Mess & Canteen
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Antarctica 1 of 3
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Flinders Island TIMED Race 2024
Race #1776
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Tasman Double 2023 - Hobart to Sydney
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Race starts: Jan 02nd 02:00
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John's Test Zone
It's time to test your ocean racing skills in a variety of weathers as we head the 6400 NM between Hong Kong and Auckland in a fast Super Maxi 100. We'll be heading from a northern summer to a southern winter so keep plenty of cold weather gear and warm rum on board!
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1597
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calm's Practice Race
Last raced in 2021, we return to Boston for another race to Newport. And just like in 2021, the chosen boat is once again the speedy R/P 66. This is a TIMED race so pick your winds wisely and see how quickly you can complete this 132nm run! For reference, the winning time in 2021 was 6:12:28.
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Race #1700
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ZONA DE PRUEBA DE MANUEL
Please note the displayed course is provisional; the actual course will be set after the IRL course is announced at the skipper's briefing 48 hours before the start, and no later than 24 hours before the start.
Race #1561
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San Sebastian to La Rochelle 2021
Once again, our SOL race will be shared with a group of Polish sailors, representing one of the stages of their Virtual Training Cruise around Europe. 171 nm in Delphia 47s across the not always calm Bay of Biscay from San Sebastian to La Rochelle will undoubtedly be one to test their skills. Welcome/Witajcie and we wish you all fair winds.
Race #1441
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Aland Sea TIMED Race
Norrtalje Segelsallskap, 70km NE of Stockholm was founded in 1920, and time was when the society’s season opened with a challenging offshore race from the club line off Flaten island at the mouth of the long and narrow Norrtaljeviken, out onto a triangular course around the Aland Sea, to finish at Simpnas slightly to the north on Bjorko island - some 78nm in total. A fine race that SOL, being from these parts, ran annually up until 2013. Last run in autumn 2018, we return here to race the course again in the form a TIMED RUN in spanking new Club Swan 50s.
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Race #1444
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Bimmer's Test Zone
What about a speedy X-362 380nm race in the waters off S America, just to blow cobwebs away!!
Race #1415
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BLANK POLAR
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