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Posted by StuArt  |
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Many SOLists are aiming for the ranking. They know, They hardly will win a race; but with a certain effort they can climb up pretty much in the ranking ladder. The problem of the current ranking: you are loosing your high points soon; so you have to sail the next race and the next one etc to keep your good position up.
One solution would be a modification of the ranking system: you are keeping your good results longer. Thats what IRL rankings do - at least them that I know. I sailed IRL with following system: The winner of every race gets 100 points (100% success). Because more participants means more skill s needed to win a race, the number of competitors is part of the calculation. e=number of participants who finished the race. x= ranking of a boat in a race. RP= race points the calculation: RP = 100 * ( ( e+1-x):e) Example: 543 boats finished. Boat x finished #49. His race points: 100*((543+1-49)/543) = 91,16 performance of boat x: 91%. The important point is: a certain amount of good results counts over a long period of time, say 6 or even 12 month. Example (the 5 best results should be in the ranking): Boat x gained in his 5 best races in the last 6 month: 91, 77, 65, 55, 41, and 19 points. His ranking points are (91+77+65+55+41+19)/5 = 56,4 That means: his overall performance is around 56%. Boat y is a newbie with just 3 races. He gained 22,19 and 11 RPs. His ranking points are: (22+19+11)/5=10,4 -> 10.4% decisions to make: How many races should be in the calculations? more means increased frequency of races. I would suggest between 5 and 8. How long can you carry your good results? my proposal at least 6 month. regards StuArt |
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Posted by WIN  |
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I would like to back up StuArt point . Since a few month now the SOL activity has dramatically increased , with so many times two if not three races open at one time . The present ranking system is based on continous attendance and some guys who are really better than me are not even close to top ranking , as they cannot commit enough time to sol . Also , as StuArt points out , each result fades away after may be one to one and half month , resulting in too quick disappearence of good results , as well as bad . A new system should be sought , that takes care , with whicever formula , of the above two issues . I am sure that a couple of new formulas in the system should not be dramatic software implementation .
Let's say that it is time to be creative also in the ranking system , to keep hight the interest in SYC and shovel some ranking stress off the fun of the game .... Ready to help with creativity of need be . ciao ciao all ...  |
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Posted by Tempest  |
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Present ranking system is based on time attended to SOL. As an example for this my temporary 4th position due to christmas holiday's and not missing nightly weather updates.
Unfortunately now work gets again in the game's way and stronger sailors are returning. I agree with Winston that ranking has not so much to do with (my) sailing quality's but mainly with the time spent to this game. Ok I may have a good understanding of meteo but i know virtually nothing about sailing tactics and i see a lot of SOLers doing cleverer things then myself. I think that the proposal of stuart has potential but also has some minor points for newbie racers and for quick rank improvement I would rather see a setup of a three / four ranking systems based on the present ranking system but divided in classes for different types of races.( however i believe this has been mentioned before) overall ranking : all races weekend : only short races during the weekend. week race : races held during weekdays over shorter distances. oceanraces : only races over more then a week This way people with less time can still be ranked high for instance in the ocean race class were most time races are more based on tactics then steering. As a last remark I am fine with the present ranking system you know for yourself if you have made mistakes or not and if your ranking is a bit to high/low for your own performance. However it is stimulating to see your ranking rise. Ranking has nothing to do with using software as i have used non. A good knowledge of meteo however helps a lot and some spare time. regards Kees (Tempest) |
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Posted by WIN |
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I think that Tempest slightly misunderstood my point ....I am saying that to be high in this ranking system you need good sailing qualities "AND" spotless continuity in the game .... Actually I have said that there are excellent solers who are not high because they cannot attend all races . In order to be high though you still need to have at least 10 active results "ALL" in top 20/30 , some of which better be in top 5 !!!
.... As an example : should one of us sail every other race , and win all the races he/she sails , he/ she would stand with thousands of points very very low in the syc ranking ......This is , I believe , what StuArt and I would like to see changed .....ciao |
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Posted by Incognito  |
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Hello everyone,
First, I think StuArt has pointed to a real and growing problem for many SOLers who are trying to play the SYC ranking. This problem has arisen because of the scheduling policy of the race committee. To accomodate the various preferences of SOLers, the race committee is now scheduling, beside the longer races, two short races per week, one during during the work week and one during the week-end. As a result, the frequency of races has indeed increased substantially, perhaps almost doubled. As StuArt pointed out, participating in the same percentage of races as before has thus become much more demanding. And the period of time covered by the SYC ranking has been effectively shortened as well. I can see some merits in StuArt's ranking system. However, basically, I do not believe that it is really possible to devise a perfect ranking system. SOL's ranking system works well enough as far as I am concerned. I prefer the SOL gods to put development time (which is in short supply) in other improvements. However, it is I believe relatively easy to change the two main parameters of the SYC ranking, namely the total number of races and the number of best races taken into account. My suggestion would be to calculate the ranking over the 10 best races out of the last 20. Thus a reduction of the participation rate and a lengthening of the effective period covered. We could test out these new parameters for a while and tweak them again later in function of the feedback. Tempest is also suggesting to introduce a number of sub-rankings. I fully agree with that. In fact, the race committee has already made exactly this request (SYC ranking, ocean races, week races, week-end races, and also all short races). It is in the pipeline. Regards, Francois |
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Posted by StuArt |
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Thanks Winston, Tempest and Inco for the feedback. I see its understood, what is needed.
The 3 different rankings are lowering the pressure. Francois' proposal for a simple change sounds good to me. But I am not glad with the numbers he thought of. We had 2,1 races a week since Novemver, so after 10 weeks my good results would be dropped. Thats just slightly better than today's version. I think we need a substantially longer period of wealthy results; as I proposed: at least 6 month. If the good sailors are not forced to sail every race to hold their position newcomers would have more opportunities to climb the ladder. regards Berth --- Last Edited by StuArt at 2010-01-28 01:39:15 --- |
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Posted by Journey  |
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I think this thread is on the right track. In addition to a more forgiving proportion than our current 10/15, the key improvement would be the addition of more subcategories.
But why stop at the type or time of race categories. I would love to see country/region rankings and maybe a separate "newbie" division. Having many rankings is a great way to keep interest high. And once you have the raw data, it's easy to create then. Why limit ourselves to one, or even the currently proposed four, rankings. The more the merrier! |
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Posted by Incognito |
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Hello SuArt, Bob,
I like to see the results of each individual race have some impact on my overall SYC ranking. That will barely be the case if the rankings cover a period of about 6 months. Two to three months sound about right to me. Given the average of about 10 races per month, two months correspond to about 20 races, three months to about 30 races. Keeking the participation rate at 50%, the SYC ranking could then be based on anything between 10 best races out of the last 20, and 15 best races out of the last 30. Bob, other type of rankings are possible of course. But let's first wait for the implementation of what has already been asked for. Regards, Francois |
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Posted by Tempest |
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Is there a possibility we use the raw data like in stenum's list for various rankings ?
http://www.stenum.se/sailonline/ Various rankings may be kept with some delay without putting to much additional ballast on SOL server. However i am certainly no specialist in these matters. Regards Kees |
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Posted by StuArt |
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Hi,
I agree, Bob and Tempest. Don't know how to implement this either; but it cannot be rocket sience; at least wiz has it on stenum.se - we could have it seperately on a different server, indeed. @ Inco: I am still not convinced, that it would make a difference to what we have. If you sail a race that is not counting to your ranking you still have your ranking in that race to see your standing. Another point: In the current system I get a penalty, when I don't start. We should consider the fact, that many users (in the VOR leg 3: 6.2%) just logging in and deciding not to start. No matter why not - they are getting the full penalty. We should change that. Probably there is a possibillity for Jakob to transmit who's not touching the boat until closing of the race. The other thing: In the current ranking you are transporting bad points, negative values. In a different ranking system like I descibed you are getting positive points; points you really faught for. The races, where others were much better, don't count. I like it more to get a reward than a penalty. my2€cent Berth |
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Garagiste's Test Lab
Race #1939
INFOby brainaid.de
RC 44 Particulars
WX Updates:
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Ranking:
TRQ3 - TRCH - SUPSOL - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
23 August at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Aug 10th 12:00 Registration will open soon
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Patricks Test
Race #1932
INFO by brainaid.de
Young 88 PARTICULARS
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SSANZ - SYC
Race starts: Aug 03rd 08:00 Registration Open!
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Joanne's Test Race Zone
Race #1847
INFOby brainaid.de
Fareast 31R PARTICULARS
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Ranking: SYC - RED
Race starts: Jul 25th 12:00 Registration Closed
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Marstrand to Cowes 2025
We invite you to another race, which will kick off the third quarter of our ARCH series. We'll set off from Marstrand, Sweden, which, along with Skagen, Denmark, marks the line commonly recognised as the border separating the Baltic Sea from the North Sea. The 650nm route will take our Ripitide 50 across the North Sea and the English Channel to Cowes, England. Watch out for the fast ferries crossing the Channel from Calais to Dover 😊.
Race #1935
INFO from brainaid.de
Riptide 50 PARTICULARS
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0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
ARQ3 - ARCH - SUPSOL – SYC
Race starts: Jul 21st 17:00 Registration Open!
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Nantucket Sprint 2025
Welcome to Nantucket, from whence Herman Melville’s Cap’n Ahab sailed round The Horn into the northern Pacific Ocean to hunt the gray whale - whose migrations are celebrated elsewhere in SOL’s Q4 schedule - he never to return. And whaling too, as the 19th C progressed, like Ahab disappeared from Nantucket as the harbour silted up and mainland Massachusetts whaling stations benefited from rail connections. But beach life, yachting and nostalgia has rescued the island from oblivion, so to celebrate leisure, SOL gives you the Nantucket Sprint - 25nm in 29er_XX’s from east of Tuckernuck Island across the sound to a finish just inside the mouth of the harbour. Enjoy!
Race 1936
INFO by brainaid.de
29er_XX PARTICULARS
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Ranking:
SPRQ3 - SPRCH - SUPSOL – SYC
Race starts: Jul 19th 15:00 Registration Closed
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Puil's Practice Palaver
Nearly there; only 2500nm to go, round the Horn and up the Red Sea to Suez into what will more than likely be more headwinds for this sixth leg of our African circumnavigation, to be followed in September by a final sneaky dash up the canal back to where we started all those months ago. We’ll be sailing a not entirely appropriate-for-upwind-work 60ft Trimaran!
Race #1859
INFOby brainaid.de
60ft Trimaran PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
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Ranking: SYC - ABS
Race starts: Jun 03rd 11:30 Registration Open!
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Gulf of St Lawrence - test - Mirek
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Race starts: Apr 21st 17:00
Registration Open!
Stefan's Duck Pond
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1900
INFO by brainaid.de
Orange 125 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
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Ranking: OCQ3 - OCCH - SUPSOL - SYC
Race starts: Feb 06th 00:00 Registration Closed
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Trapped Camel
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Race starts: Aug 21st 15:03
Registration Open!
Caravanserai
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Race starts: Aug 08th 17:00
Registration Open!
Patrick's Playpen
Welcome to the legendary "Westcoaster," a race that has tested sailors for over 50 years. Spanning 435 nautical miles, this iconic journey takes racers from Melbourne, across the formidable Bass Strait, and around Tasmania's rugged west coast to the finish line in Hobart. Organized by the Ocean Racing Club of Victoria, the Westcoaster is renowned for its challenging conditions and adventurous spirit. This year, our SOLers will tackle the course in the swift and capable First 47.7, a yacht launched by Beneteau in 2000, built for speed and endurance in long ocean races. Get ready for an exhilarating ride in one of Australia’s most celebrated yacht races!
Race #1841
INFO by brainaid.de
First 47.7 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
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Ranking: SYC
Race starts: Aug 03rd 08:00 Registration Open!
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Mirek's Mess & Canteen
music deleted
Race starts: Apr 26th 18:00
Registration Closed
Antarctica 1 of 3
-
Race starts: Jan 27th 21:57
Registration Open!
Flinders Island TIMED Race 2024
Race #1776
INFO by brainaid.de
Ocean 50 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
TRQ1 - TRCH - SUPSOL - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
27 January at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Jan 14th 12:00 Registration Open!
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Tasman Double 2023 - Hobart to Sydney
music deleted
Race starts: Jan 02nd 02:00
Registration Open!
John's Test Zone
It's time to test your ocean racing skills in a variety of weathers as we head the 6400 NM between Hong Kong and Auckland in a fast Super Maxi 100. We'll be heading from a northern summer to a southern winter so keep plenty of cold weather gear and warm rum on board!
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1597
INFOby brainaid.de
Super Maxi 100 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
OCQ3-OCCH-SUPSOL-SYC
Race starts: Sep 01st 04:00
Registration Closed
calm's Practice Race
Last raced in 2021, we return to Boston for another race to Newport. And just like in 2021, the chosen boat is once again the speedy R/P 66. This is a TIMED race so pick your winds wisely and see how quickly you can complete this 132nm run! For reference, the winning time in 2021 was 6:12:28.
RE-REGISTER HERE to race again after finishing a run
Race #1700
INFO by brainaid.de
R/P 66 PARTICULARS
NAM_AWIP WX Updates:
0245 / 0845 / 1445 / 2045
Ranking:
TRQ3 - TRCH - SUPSOL - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Sunday, 18 August at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Aug 05th 12:00
Registration Closed
ZONA DE PRUEBA DE MANUEL
Please note the displayed course is provisional; the actual course will be set after the IRL course is announced at the skipper's briefing 48 hours before the start, and no later than 24 hours before the start.
Race #1561
INFOby brainaid.de
Young 88 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC - NTR
Race starts: Jan 10th 14:00 Registration Closed
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San Sebastian to La Rochelle 2021
Once again, our SOL race will be shared with a group of Polish sailors, representing one of the stages of their Virtual Training Cruise around Europe. 171 nm in Delphia 47s across the not always calm Bay of Biscay from San Sebastian to La Rochelle will undoubtedly be one to test their skills. Welcome/Witajcie and we wish you all fair winds.
Race #1441
INFOby brainaid.de
Delphia 47 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC
Race starts: Mar 05th 17:00
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Aland Sea TIMED Race
Norrtalje Segelsallskap, 70km NE of Stockholm was founded in 1920, and time was when the society’s season opened with a challenging offshore race from the club line off Flaten island at the mouth of the long and narrow Norrtaljeviken, out onto a triangular course around the Aland Sea, to finish at Simpnas slightly to the north on Bjorko island - some 78nm in total. A fine race that SOL, being from these parts, ran annually up until 2013. Last run in autumn 2018, we return here to race the course again in the form a TIMED RUN in spanking new Club Swan 50s.
RE-REGISTER HERE to race again after finishing a run.
Race #1444
INFO by brainaid.de
Club Swan 50 Particulars
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
RANKING:
TRQ1 - TRCH - SUPSOL - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Sunday, 28 February at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Feb 15th 12:00
Registration Closed
Bimmer's Test Zone
What about a speedy X-362 380nm race in the waters off S America, just to blow cobwebs away!!
Race #1415
INFOby brainaid.de
X-362 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
SYC
ALT. CLIENT:Classic
Race starts: Dec 21st 16:00
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Antarctica 3 of 3
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Race starts: Sep 16th 11:13
Registration Closed
BLANK POLAR
Race starts: Feb 16th 00:00
Registration Open!
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