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Posted by A2  |
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From my personal experience the origin of this practice should not be ascribed to my Italian friends. There was & continues to be an off site sailing community who organizes team competition across several well known virtual venues. The moniker for this group is Revatua, really nice folks & good sailors, with a primarily french speaking orientation.
The intent was to score multiple boats comprising a team for an aggregate result. One particularly aggressive team exploited the situation & boat slaving began such that the best available member simultaneously controlled many boats. The clustering of positions by this strategy did not go unnoticed when races here at SOL were indirectly involved. It was then that other nationalities began to follow suit. The Team boat concept here evolved from that situation. None so blind |
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Posted by javakeda  |
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For the record, the "purpose" of the LazySheets team is to compete in Timed Races and Sprints. On occasion, LazySheets may compete in Weekend races not associated with a series.
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Posted by javakeda |
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Several previous posts in prior threads have noted that the current rules regarding 1 person / 1 boat and regarding boat-sitting appear to conflict. They are, IMHO, at least ambiguous.
Here is my attempt to come up with consistent definitions for exceptions to the 1 person / 1 boat rule. Disclaimer: These definitions may be consistently applied, but I don't see how they are server enforceable. Honorable skippers are still required to make this work. Team Boats: ** This is one boat controlled by two or more team members. ** Each team member has the potential for complete control of the boat and can make independent decisions. ** It is up to the team members themselves to determine who has the CONN at any given time. ** Team members must be SYC members. ** No team member may compete their own boat in a race in which the team boat competes. Caretakers -- aka Boat Sitters ** Boat Sitters have complete control of the boat --- for a specific time period only --- in order to carry out specific instructions given to them by the skipper of the boat. ** In the absence of specific instructions, boat sitting defaults to being on Disaster Watch. (see below) ** Under no circumstances is a boat sitter to make independent strategic or tactical decisions for the boat. Disaster Watch Alliances ** In the event of a disaster, alliance members may provide mutual assistance. ** Before disaster assistance can be rendered, a disaster must occur. That is: --- a boat is on the rocks --- a boat missed a mark (or the finish line). --- a boat has reversed course and is sailing back to the start. ** In cases where disaster is merely impending, alliance members are limited to attempting to warn the boat skipper about the danger. They may, however, use any and all communications channels. ** After the disaster, the alliance member may examine DCs to determine the intent of the boat skipper, and set a heading accordingly. ** If the skipper's intent is not clear (e.g., there are no DCs) the alliance member will point the boat at the next mark, or as close to that heading as intervening headlands and adverse winds allow. There are still some objective calls inherent in the above. And, as noted, these guidelines appear to be impossible to enforce via the server. I do feel, however, that making distinctions among these three cases would reduce the overall level of ambiguity. Both javakeda and LazySheets sail by the above guidelines. |
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Posted by Svein  |
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Just like SWE_rossy I Think all team boats should become SYC-members. The above posts represent serious approaches to situations that can only be monitored by skippers' honour.
If there existed a technically viable method to identify individual sailors I would definitely introduce and enforce the rules of "one boat - one skipper" and "one skipper - one boat". However it seems to me that would enchroach on personal integrity. So for now - let's move on with what we've got. |
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Posted by javakeda |
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Agree, Svein.
Didn't intend my post, earlier today, to be a 'call for change' on the SOL system. The SOL works pretty well 'as is'. Upon rereading what I wrote, however, I can see how easy it is to see the post as a call for change. What I intended to do was resolve the paradox of "1 person / 1 boat" and "boat sitting" coexisting in a (supposedly) coherent set of rules -- in other words, to provide the logical framework for keeping things as they are. Unfortunately, my post had lots of specific details, but lacked a conceptual overview. So, let me try to articulate the concepts: 1) The current rules for team boats work for me. 2) Boat-sitting can/should be viewed as an extension of the DC system. -- Skippers enter DCs into the SOL client to get computer execution of their wishes. -- Skippers provide instructions to boat-sitters to get human execution of their wishes. The boat-sitter's control of the boat is thus no different from the current DC system's control of the boat. No instructions = no execution. 3) Disaster rescue alliances seem to be within the scope of the current rules. But there is a moral hazard here. Disaster rescue should not be a substitute for a skipper's due-diligence. Thus, it is important for the disaster to happen before the rescue is made. A careless skipper must incur some penalty for carelessness. ===== I offer this as a 'discussion draft'. I hope, perhaps naively, to get constructive criticism on the points raised. If all this helps provide a rational basis for SOL 'as is', then good. If this wants to devolve into 'flame wars -- 2014', then I will stand down. |
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Posted by Rod  |
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Perhaps some additions should be made to the above "Rules".
1. a "team" boat should be announced at the start of any race, telling who is on the team, and also who is skippering at any time. 2. a "boat sitting" should also be announced, telling who is sailing the boat at any time, during the race. This process should be capable of being "policed" because the server should "know" which computer is sending the instructions to the boat (we have an elaborate system of addresses and passwords to act as our only "security" in the "internet world" which surely can record this information in our SOL world. If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy. |
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Posted by kroppyer  |
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(@Rod: ) A team should make internal agreements about who is sailing when. We cannot force them to make a schedule, besides it doesn't solve anything.
There are other websites where sits must be reported (before or directly after the sit). [I mean to say, this is a possibility and can (should?) be discussed, in contrast with forcing teamboats to make a schedule)] --- We seem to be considering only teamboats of people that each have their own boat on sol. What about two IRL friends who share a boat? The FAQ (here) says: Q: Can me and a friend "share" a boat although we do not share the same computer, or even live in the same country? A: Yes, no problem. Just share your login details and you are all set to share the boat. Only question is - do you trust your friend? To me, this looks like teamboats are allowed, even for non members. --- Last Edited by kroppyer at 2014-04-28 18:48:10 --- |
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Posted by Rod |
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Didn't mean a schedule---just say in chat who is taking over---This is to prevent an 'emergency' boatsitting from being a regular alternation of skippers.
And I have always thought that 'one skipper-one boat' meant "one skipper-one boat" If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy. |
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Garagiste's Test Lab
Race #1939
INFOby brainaid.de
RC 44 Particulars
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RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
23 August at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Aug 10th 12:00 Registration will open soon
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Patricks Test
Race #1932
INFO by brainaid.de
Young 88 PARTICULARS
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Joanne's Test Race Zone
Race #1847
INFOby brainaid.de
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Race starts: Jul 25th 12:00 Registration Closed
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Marstrand to Cowes 2025
We invite you to another race, which will kick off the third quarter of our ARCH series. We'll set off from Marstrand, Sweden, which, along with Skagen, Denmark, marks the line commonly recognised as the border separating the Baltic Sea from the North Sea. The 650nm route will take our Ripitide 50 across the North Sea and the English Channel to Cowes, England. Watch out for the fast ferries crossing the Channel from Calais to Dover 😊.
Race #1935
INFO from brainaid.de
Riptide 50 PARTICULARS
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Race starts: Jul 21st 17:00 Registration Open!
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Nantucket Sprint 2025
Welcome to Nantucket, from whence Herman Melville’s Cap’n Ahab sailed round The Horn into the northern Pacific Ocean to hunt the gray whale - whose migrations are celebrated elsewhere in SOL’s Q4 schedule - he never to return. And whaling too, as the 19th C progressed, like Ahab disappeared from Nantucket as the harbour silted up and mainland Massachusetts whaling stations benefited from rail connections. But beach life, yachting and nostalgia has rescued the island from oblivion, so to celebrate leisure, SOL gives you the Nantucket Sprint - 25nm in 29er_XX’s from east of Tuckernuck Island across the sound to a finish just inside the mouth of the harbour. Enjoy!
Race 1936
INFO by brainaid.de
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Race starts: Jul 19th 15:00 Registration Closed
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Puil's Practice Palaver
Nearly there; only 2500nm to go, round the Horn and up the Red Sea to Suez into what will more than likely be more headwinds for this sixth leg of our African circumnavigation, to be followed in September by a final sneaky dash up the canal back to where we started all those months ago. We’ll be sailing a not entirely appropriate-for-upwind-work 60ft Trimaran!
Race #1859
INFOby brainaid.de
60ft Trimaran PARTICULARS
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Gulf of St Lawrence - test - Mirek
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Race starts: Apr 21st 17:00
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Stefan's Duck Pond
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1900
INFO by brainaid.de
Orange 125 PARTICULARS
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Ranking: OCQ3 - OCCH - SUPSOL - SYC
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Trapped Camel
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Race starts: Aug 21st 15:03
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Caravanserai
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Race starts: Aug 08th 17:00
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Patrick's Playpen
Welcome to the legendary "Westcoaster," a race that has tested sailors for over 50 years. Spanning 435 nautical miles, this iconic journey takes racers from Melbourne, across the formidable Bass Strait, and around Tasmania's rugged west coast to the finish line in Hobart. Organized by the Ocean Racing Club of Victoria, the Westcoaster is renowned for its challenging conditions and adventurous spirit. This year, our SOLers will tackle the course in the swift and capable First 47.7, a yacht launched by Beneteau in 2000, built for speed and endurance in long ocean races. Get ready for an exhilarating ride in one of Australia’s most celebrated yacht races!
Race #1841
INFO by brainaid.de
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Mirek's Mess & Canteen
music deleted
Race starts: Apr 26th 18:00
Registration Closed
Antarctica 1 of 3
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Race starts: Jan 27th 21:57
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Flinders Island TIMED Race 2024
Race #1776
INFO by brainaid.de
Ocean 50 PARTICULARS
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RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
27 January at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Jan 14th 12:00 Registration Open!
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Tasman Double 2023 - Hobart to Sydney
music deleted
Race starts: Jan 02nd 02:00
Registration Open!
John's Test Zone
It's time to test your ocean racing skills in a variety of weathers as we head the 6400 NM between Hong Kong and Auckland in a fast Super Maxi 100. We'll be heading from a northern summer to a southern winter so keep plenty of cold weather gear and warm rum on board!
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1597
INFOby brainaid.de
Super Maxi 100 PARTICULARS
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Race starts: Sep 01st 04:00
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calm's Practice Race
Last raced in 2021, we return to Boston for another race to Newport. And just like in 2021, the chosen boat is once again the speedy R/P 66. This is a TIMED race so pick your winds wisely and see how quickly you can complete this 132nm run! For reference, the winning time in 2021 was 6:12:28.
RE-REGISTER HERE to race again after finishing a run
Race #1700
INFO by brainaid.de
R/P 66 PARTICULARS
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ZONA DE PRUEBA DE MANUEL
Please note the displayed course is provisional; the actual course will be set after the IRL course is announced at the skipper's briefing 48 hours before the start, and no later than 24 hours before the start.
Race #1561
INFOby brainaid.de
Young 88 PARTICULARS
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San Sebastian to La Rochelle 2021
Once again, our SOL race will be shared with a group of Polish sailors, representing one of the stages of their Virtual Training Cruise around Europe. 171 nm in Delphia 47s across the not always calm Bay of Biscay from San Sebastian to La Rochelle will undoubtedly be one to test their skills. Welcome/Witajcie and we wish you all fair winds.
Race #1441
INFOby brainaid.de
Delphia 47 PARTICULARS
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Race starts: Mar 05th 17:00
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Aland Sea TIMED Race
Norrtalje Segelsallskap, 70km NE of Stockholm was founded in 1920, and time was when the society’s season opened with a challenging offshore race from the club line off Flaten island at the mouth of the long and narrow Norrtaljeviken, out onto a triangular course around the Aland Sea, to finish at Simpnas slightly to the north on Bjorko island - some 78nm in total. A fine race that SOL, being from these parts, ran annually up until 2013. Last run in autumn 2018, we return here to race the course again in the form a TIMED RUN in spanking new Club Swan 50s.
RE-REGISTER HERE to race again after finishing a run.
Race #1444
INFO by brainaid.de
Club Swan 50 Particulars
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RACE CLOSE: Sunday, 28 February at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Feb 15th 12:00
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Bimmer's Test Zone
What about a speedy X-362 380nm race in the waters off S America, just to blow cobwebs away!!
Race #1415
INFOby brainaid.de
X-362 PARTICULARS
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Race starts: Dec 21st 16:00
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Antarctica 3 of 3
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Race starts: Sep 16th 11:13
Registration Closed
BLANK POLAR
Race starts: Feb 16th 00:00
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